Talk:Larry McDonald

Untitled

Congressman Larry McDonald succeeded Bob Welch as head of the John Birch Society. Dr. McDonald was tall, handsome and respected as a leader. Many called him a patrician. As a Member of Congress, he knew government from the inside. He was a consummate organizer and administrator. He was tireless in his efforts to expose what he viewed as the Conspiracy.

Scandal

Why is there nothing in this article on his sex scandal? "In 1976, Flynt was inspired by those scandals to take out an ad in The Washington Post offering an up-to-$1-million reward to anyone who could provide “documentary evidence of illicit sexual relations with a Congressman, Senator or other prominent officeholder.” Nothing much turned up, at least that became public. (Flynt does have a McCarthy-like habit—or maybe it’s Barnumesque—of insisting he has ripe, drippingly scandalous goods he can’t quite show yet.) A few years later, Flynt published pictures of Representative Larry McDonald, a Georgia Republican, in bed with a mistress; alas, this scoop was undercut in 1983 when McDonald was killed as a passenger on Korean Air Lines Flight 007, which was shot down by the U.S.S.R. when it strayed into Russian airspace." http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/12/flynt200712 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.38.17 (talk) 01:09, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

• Politically motivated attack. McDonald was divorced at the time so there could not have been any scandal.Wordup 10 (talk) 15:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Vanity Fair has messed up in its fact checking and reporting.

• McDonald was a Democrat and not a Republican as reported.
• the Feb. 1984 Hustler article contained Flynt's speculation about the KAL 007 shoot down and not McDonald's private life.

Hasta Nakshatra (talk) 05:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Highway

The Larry McDonald Memorial Highway is Interstate 75 from the Chattahoochee River to the Tennessee state line. It includes several counties, not just Cobb.

ToddCrowder 19:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Tribute

Larry was an impressive figure. He was tall, had deep black hair and handsome good looks that owed to his Scottish (on fathers side) and Cherokee (on mothers side) lineage. However, it was his cheerful, gregariousness but deeply committed personality that made him stand out among his fellow men. His sound judgement and courageous stand on many difficult social issues set him apart from others who took a more popular position. Due to his views he became very controversial, and his political opponents frequently resorted to derision when discussing him, although not knowing much if anything about him.

Politically, Larry McDonald may be seen as a precursor of the Reagan Revolution that swept through Washington and the world in the 1980s. While a Democrat, he was essentially a Dixie-crat. He did not approve of Jimmy Carters politics, even if they hailed from the same state and belonged to the same party. At one point, Carter´s son, Chip, tried to vie for his seat in Congress, but failed.

Larry, albeit a medical doctor by training, was a student of Austrian economics, notably the works of Ludwig Von Mises. As such, he believed in the ability of free markets and limited government to deliver a rising living standard for all. He also took a commonsensical position on economic policy questions of his day. He was of the view that the growth of the money supply was the source of inflation. As such, he was in favour of Paul Volckers hike in interest rates to bring down inflation and get rid of the twin evils of stagnation and inflation - stagflation. He also felt that big government and welfare spending needed to be curtailed, to avoid welfare dependency and the creation of a permanent underclass dependent on handouts. At that time, most Democrats held tight to the Keynesian orthodoxy that government spending and intervention was the solution to all economic and social ills.

His 1976 book "We Hold These Truths" was a paean to the US constitution and the original views of the founders about freedom of action and limited government. Larry wanted to roll back the burgeoning government to make room for private business activity to raise living standards. His vision was a decent and prosperous America for coming generations. He was in favour of a strong military to defend the hard-earned freedoms and served on the Armed Services Committee during the 93rd until the 98th Congress of the USA. He was dead set in his fight against the spread of Communism and was active in the John Birch Society to that end. President Reagan later termed Soviet Communism "the Evil Empire". Larry would have agreed and the vast majority of the liberated people of Russia and neighboring states now all agree.

A man of such outstanding caliber doesn´t appear often and is always missed.

20:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

For not putting that in the article. 208.61.124.252 21:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

For being a smart ass prick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.216.61 (talk) 07:01, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

6th or 7th district

The intro says 6th district, the infobox and succession box say 7th (and the wikilinks to 7th district are red). I'm guessing there was a gerrymander at some point... - RJASE1 17:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• In 1978 he represented the 6th district, including the city of Roswell in Fulton County. A gerrymander of his district evidently occurred after that.

Moved material about KAL 007 to the correct article

There was a long paragraph about KAL 007. I've moved it to Korean Air Flight 007, where it belongs. Chip Unicorn 05:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

The death section should be rewritten. It is full of run-on sentances and does not look right.

I cleaned it up, I hope..I hope..!

Liberal in his economic policies?

CLASSICALLLY liberal, maybe, but just calling his economics "liberal," is very confusing. If he was liberal, then what's a conservative? 68.219.72.102 23:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Liberal as in laizzes faire, a common terminology for economic conservatism. Ramayan 23:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

It may be common terminology for much of the world, but in terms of US politics, Liberal Economics refers to socialism. It is annoying I know, but seeing that this article describes a US politician, we should try to use terms that are accurate for US polotics. Seeing that you said "a common terminology for economic conservatism", I will change liberal to conservative because it will be more accurate and less confusing.Mantion 06:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

This article's biography section is clearly anti-Communist and pro-McDonald in its POV. I tried to fix it a little, but there should be some discussion on it.

The article only states McDonald was anti-communist. How does this make the article anti-communist? How is it "Pro-McDonald"? The article simply and accurately describes McDonald? For example he opposed government aiding Homosexuals to some this would be a good thing to others this would be a bad thing. He is also associated with Joseph McCarthy, to some this also is a good thing and to others this is a bad thing.Mantion 07:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, I would say it violates NPOV with several mentions of "the communist threat". Might be appropriate if a direct quotation or with a qualifier ("perceived"). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julius177 (talk • contribs) 06:12, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Sources

What's the actual source of that conspiracy quote? It's bandied all around the internets, certainly, but I haven't been able to find where and when McDonald actually said it. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

The 4 boxes quote? It's origin is most likely "Democracy is defended in 3 stages. Ballot Box, Jury Box, Cartridge Box.", Ambrose Bierce[1]. Fellow anti-communist Steven Symms is also "credited" with the "4 boxes" variant[2] Some have even called it the "Armed Citizen's Signature". Even so the editor that added it has provided a citation are you saying it not WP:RS? Hutcher (talk) 07:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I said "that conspiracy quote" -- the one about the Rockefellers. So, no, there's not a reliable source for it yet, but I'm sure one can be found. I don't really think the first quotations's source is any good either; it's just Some Guy's Collection of Quotes, and doesn't supply any acceptable sources with which to verify that McDonald actually said any such thing. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It's from McDonald's introduction to Gary Allen's The Rockefeller File (online). The article now cites this as the source of the quotation. --darolew (talk) 08:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction or Typo?

In the introductory paragraph the following is stated: "He was known for his staunch opposition to communism and believed in long standing covert efforts by powerful US groups to bring about a socialist world government." It seems the second segment of this sentence should read something along the lines of: "... and believed in long standing covert efforts by powerful US groups to thwart a socialist world government." This seems rather obvious but I figured I would leave for someone more familiar with the subject matter. 24.91.74.23 (talk) 04:11, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Read the article again! "In 1980 Larry McDonald introduced American Legion National Convention Resolution 773 to the House of Representatives calling for a comprehensive congressional investigation into the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission[5]." -- Both CFR and TC do qualify as "(covert) powerful US groups to bring about a socialist world government". Sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory, but it the article in general does make sense. RachelBartlett (talk) 11:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

enlarged photo

enlarged computer aged photo a bit to better show scarBert Schlossberg (talk) 22:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Crossing the aisle?

Did McDonald consider joining the steady flow of Southern Democrats to the Republican Party? Dynzmoar (talk) 11:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

It's impossible to know for sure, but this newspaper article excerpt (put online here) is relevant:

McDonald, whose views are perceived as somewhere to the right of Ronald Reagan, is often asked whether he will remain in the Democratic Party.

"I am a historic Democrat," he said, "but if Thomas Jefferson were alive today, I doubt if he would be a Democrat."

He said he has "no problems" with Georgia and the 7th District Democrats but the national party is another matter.

"Just look at the presidential candidates trooping up to Washington for Martin Luther King Day," McDonald said. "The national party is a bunch of kooks who want to force us out of the party." [...]

But as for turning Republican, McDonald said he is "not all that enthusiastic about either party."

"The Republican Party is more conservative," he said, "but it's pure nonsense to believe we have a two-party system. We have a representative government within a constitutional framework."

Hope that helps. --darolew (talk) 07:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Original research

I marked the following sentence as appearing to be original research:

In another sense, McDonald may be viewed as a precursor of the Reagan supply-side (market liberalization) revolution that swept through the country in the 1980s.

There's no source given for this assertion; the wording also seems to point in the direction of OR. (The sentence was added to the article back in October 2006 by Cosmic Joe, who has been inactive since 2006.)

As following policy, I'll remove this sentence in a few days if no "previously researched origins" are produced. --darolew (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed. --darolew (talk) 01:28, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

New quotation

I added a new Larry McDonald quotation, taken from a talk show interview. I think it's a good quotation to have in the article, as it succinctly illustrates his basic point of view. Here it is:

I personally believe that we don't need a lot more laws, I think we've got far too many laws on the books now, that's part of the problem. ... we don't need more government, more laws; we need a lot less. I'm up there [in Washington, D.C.] trying to dismantle a lot of this giant government. ... when you "pass a law" with the current attitude in the Congress what do you get in a law today? You get either more spending, or more taxes, or more controls.  ...which do you want? Do you want more spending? I think we've got too much. Do you want more taxes? I think we're taxed too heavily now. Do you want more controls over your life? Does anybody say 'Hey look, I really believe the federal government needs to control me. I want to be a slave. Please tell me how to run every facet of my life.' I don't hear many people saying that. I think most people say 'I think it's time we get the government off our backs, and out of our pockets.'

However, this is fairly abridged. In case any future editors want to easily change the manner of abridgment, I'm providing the unabridged transcription of McDonald's response below. For context, McDonald was asked to respond to newspapers' opinion that he was not an effective congressman.

All you have to do is ask for a definition of the word "effective". Effective at what? Uh, now, they all seem to be effective at passing laws, well, I personally believe that we don't need a lot more laws, I think we've got far too many laws on the books now, that's part of the problem. Our government is far too... we don't need more government, more laws; we need a lot less. I'm up there trying to dismantle a lot of this giant government. But let's stop and just think about when you quote "pass a law" with the current attitude in the Congress what do you get in a law today? You get either more spending, or more taxes, or more controls. That's the three things. Let me ask you, which do you want? Do you want more spending? I think we've got too much. Do you want more taxes? I think we're taxed too heavily now. Do you want more controls over your life? Does anybody say "Hey look, I really believe the federal government needs to control me. I want to be a slave. Please tell me how to run every facet of my life." I don't hear many people saying that. I think most people say "I think it's time we get the government off our backs, and out of our pockets." Yes, I think that the people, who believe the welfare state is a disaster, the people who are trying to slow down this humongous growth in the federal government, and the stifling of the American dream, these are viewed as the mavericks. These are viewed... Congressman Phil Crane is viewed as being "not effective". Congressman John Ashbrook, one of the great Americans of this century, prior to his recent, strange, tragic death, uh, was an individual who was constantly criticized as being "not effective". And today, to be "effective", you have to be one of those saying more government, more spending, and more controls, more taxes and I'm not part of that breed and I'll readily admit to that.

To be clear, the ellipses (...) in the complete transcription indicate where McDonald paused and changed the direction of his sentence; they do not indicate omissions. (And completely off-topic: the irony of McDonald referring to Ashbrook's "recent, strange, tragic death" is not lost on me.) --darolew (talk) 09:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The Ron Paul quote

"He was the most principled man in Congress." - Ron Paul, The Philadelphia Inquirer

I've been looking for a more precise citation for this quote. I searched the Inquirer's database and it seems possible that the quotation is from the September 2, 1983 article entitled "A Congressman Recalled as a Communist-Hater" [3]. However, I can't confirm this as a paying account is required to view the full article.

So, if if anyone has an account for The Philadelphia Inquirer archive, could you confirm this?

(I'm aware that the odds of anyone with such an account seeing this request are quite low, but it can't hurt to ask.) --darolew (talk) 16:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

wrong location

Yes, Darolew, you corrected me correctly. I mistakenly put Temir Tau, the next to last location, instead of Karaganda for the last location. Thanks!Bert Schlossberg (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Reliable source: Jim Marr?

Is Jim Marr a reliable source? He is given as the source for the reference to 'American Legion National Convention Resolution 773'. - Crosbiesmith (talk) 21:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

"discovering that urine was a communist conspiracy"?

This is vandalism, right? 75.76.213.106 (talk) 17:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You need to ask? --darolew (talk) 23:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids." - Base Commander Jack D. Ripper (Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb)

Children

The article names his children by his first wife, but he has at least one more, by his second wife... named Larry McDonald Jr, I believe. 207.59.211.146 (talk) 13:07, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Someone needs to look at footnote 1, referred to immediately below in "questions about marriages" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

questions about marriages

Footnote 1 leads to a page which says this about McDonald and 2nd wife (Kathryn): "They were married in June of 1976." How is 1975 arrived at in what I am currently seeing here on Wikipedia?

I supplied what information I could about marriages in the infobox. For Anna, 1st wife, I added "?-?; divorced)", and for Kathryn, 2nd wife, I added "(1975-1983; his death)". Need to fill in what I have as "?". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Larry McDonald. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121011081300/http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.97hconres29 to http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.97hconres29
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131217195732/http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=L5kFAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SDMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1928,1370743 to http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=L5kFAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SDMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1928,1370743
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131217200250/http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oZYFAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8zIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1238,2829518 to http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oZYFAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8zIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1238,2829518

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 13:25, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Larry McDonald. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120314091507/http://www.law.uga.edu/dwilkes_more/his36_flight.html to http://www.law.uga.edu/dwilkes_more/his36_flight.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.buchanan.org/h-192.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Larry McDonald. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/197h/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180202/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1977/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1977/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180212/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1978/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1978/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180216/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1979/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1979/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180204/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1980/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1980/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180210/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1981/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1981/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130928180214/http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1982/hse_coge.html to http://www.conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/1982/hse_coge.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070627035157/http://www.acuratings.org/ratingsarchive/1983/hse_coge.html to http://www.acuratings.org/ratingsarchive/1983/hse_coge.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:20, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Politico

Dorfman, Zach (December 2, 2018). "The Congressman Who Created His Own Deep State. Really". Politico. Retrieved 2 December 2018.

Politico published a big article on McDonald today. There's probably a lot of information that could be added to the article here. Mobi Ditch (talk) 21:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I took out this sentence - "However, he supported many African-American causes and was a prime mover in dedicating two statues in the US Congress Capital Rotunda-area to prominent African Americans George Washington Carver and Booker T. Washington.", because I looked through the bills, etc, that he sponsored in Congress at that website. Those that are categorized as related to civil rights are mostly connected to the Soviet Union. The few that related to the US are apparently against Affirmative Action or school integration.[4][5][6][7] If someone has a source showing he "supported many African-American causes" then it can be added back. Mobi Ditch (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

References